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Video Transcript:

Jason Drohn:
Hey, what's up? This is Jason Drohn from GSDdaily. Welcome to episode number 48. We are going to talk about Face to Face Sales via Zoom Calls. I believe, and with me today is a very, very special guest. You see him on the screen, Patch Baker. How are you doing, Patch?

Patch Baker:
I'm good buddy. Glad to hang out with you.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah, man. Patch and I have had a couple of conversations in the past and this dude knows more about more things than anybody else I've ever met, so-

Patch Baker:
You can't start out like that, bro.

Jason Drohn:
Oh, you know. Well, this is high-ticket face to face sales from shit week, so basically. So Monday we went over strategy sessions and selling on strategy sessions. Yesterday we went over basically what you can sell, like assisted learning, group coaching, masterminds, bootcamps, all that kind of stuff.

And today we're going to learn about how to sell some high-ticket stuff on Zoom. And you love selling stuff on video, right?

Patch Baker:
Yeah, for sure. I won't even take phone calls anymore. It used to be I'd try to get really good at phone closing, and I'm not saying that there's not a place for phone closing, I'm definitely not saying that.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
You'd be surprised, man. I don't take phone calls at all. I send them over to Morgan and she books a Zoom call or we just don't talk, and I do that with everybody. But the really good thing is I've created that kind of culture, everybody knows that if they want to talk to me, they have to book a call. I don't do this to them though. Lots of people use Calendly links to sell.

Jason Drohn:
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Patch Baker:
And anybody who's somebody... Everybody is somebody, but anybody who you want to talk to, don't put them on the AI line with saying, "Hey, just hit my Calendly link."

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Right? Because it's like a real smack in the face to a lot of people.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
It's just personality out of it.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah. It's interesting that you bring that up because like we use Calendly link, scheduling links in software. In our funnels-

Patch Baker:
In software, yes.

Jason Drohn:
... in Pipedrive, in whatever. But a referral-

Patch Baker:
And it depends on where you start. It depends on where you start.

Jason Drohn:
Yes.

Patch Baker:
For example, if they start in a Facebook bot and then you say, "Hey, pick a time and we'll meet up." They'd been talking to a computer the whole time. When they contact you directly and then you can say, "Oh, here's my Calendly link," and then I have to go work for a computer, you put me under day, we call it the AI line, and when you do that, it's turnoff. Right?

Jason Drohn:
Oh yeah.

Patch Baker:
So back to the original of, I used to try really hard to close people on the phone, but the unfortunate part about being on the phone is that you don't have that face-to-face contact, and a lot of times to sell high-ticket stuff, I just want you to think about this from a customer journey standpoint. In order to sell high-ticket stuff, you typically always have to educate them about the product, the service, the course, the security, the investment, the whatever it is.

So if you have to educate them, I just want you to think about it, on the phone, they could be doing dishes, they could be taking out the trash, they can be messing around with kids.

Jason Drohn:
True.

Patch Baker:
You can't understand whether or not they are seeing you and understanding you. Even right now you don't even know that you're doing it, but you are agreeing with what I'm saying, so you're shaking your head yes, which means I can move on to the next piece-

Jason Drohn:
Thing.

Patch Baker:
... or the next topic. If you're sitting there and you're going, I know that I need to stay on that topic because you don't get it yet.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
So as part of the face to face sales sequence and face to face sales cycle, I can pull two or three or five closes by watching your face and understanding where you are in the conversation, and I can only do that on video, I can't necessarily do it on the phone unless you're super talkative. If you're engaging with me and you can get through... I can keep asking questions and you keep doing answers, then it's easier for me to close you.

But most people are not like that, most people do subtle things. They're either shaking their head, they're slamming their eyes, they're doing whatever to let me know, hey, they're good with it, they understand it, but they don't believe it, or hey they don't understand it. They don't understand how we got from point A to point C, so you go back and talk about B real quick.

This is really cool too, I can also see which part of the pitch is really enticing to them. So a lot of really good high-ticket closers, we're actually sending out small little subtle things trying to understand where you are in your life journey, so therefore we can figure out what is the thing that makes you tick. Is it straight up dollars? Is it impact? Is it education? Is it helping others? What is it? And then I adjust my close to fall in line with your things.

Now, every good face to face sales process, every solid face to face sales strategy has multiple different entry ways into the same exact product service, digital products, investment, whatever we're talking about, there's multiple entryways into that. One of the things that we have to do is either one, on the automated side, we have to tag you to understand which one of those you fall into so that we can put the messaging that resonates with you, or if it's just to high-ticket close, then when I'm on the video with you, I have to do all those subtle little things.

"So Jason, what's been going on in your world, man? What's the next big goal that you got?" And then just start pegging on those things so that I make sure that whatever closing technique that I'm using should fall directly in line with what your aspirations are. I have to make sure that the product does fulfill on that piece that you want to do or that goal that you have, and then it's just all roads lead to Rome. Right? My product or service is the answer for every single objection, every single issue.

If it's not, just say that and get off the phone, get on another call.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Right, right.

Patch Baker:
Right? Don't waste your time trying to close something that is just not a good fit.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah, totally. A couple of times you've mentioned different kinds of closes, so can you talk about some of the different kinds of closes? You have like emotional, so-

Patch Baker:
Oh man, there's so many of them. We could talk about this for six weeks.

Jason Drohn:
How about a couple that you use often?

Patch Baker:
I don't know. I'm one of those people that I play the person. Face to face sales is a chess game, there's a lot of people out there that are still playing checkers and those people might get a win every once in a while, but the guys that are playing chess, the guys that are really doing some stuff, they're three or four or five steps ahead, and as irony would have it, we... I say we, like the collective royal we, like the collective whole, but I don't try to do things to people, I try to do things for people.

You and I have had this conversation about clients where you got to beat them into submission in order to drag them to success-

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
... but some people really need certain things, but most of the time you're selling them on the sizzle and then you actually give them what they have to have in order to get to the next step. So I do a lot of that kind of stuff. I do a lot of, they're like reset closes, which is nothing more than you build them up, build them up, build them up, build them up, build them up, and then you say, "Okay, let's reset and go back to the beginning. What would be the next logical step for you and your business to move forward? This is what I think it is."

And you get them start to talking about if you were their vendor or their... If you a part of them in some way or they were using the service or product, what would be the next logical step for them to take? And then what happens is they start pitching you on why they would be a good client or why they'd be a good fit. And what happens then is you say, "That sounds like a great idea. Let's do that."

Jason Drohn:
Right. That's good. I really, really like that. So how do you handle objections?

Patch Baker:
Head on. Face first. There's really no objection... You think about it, people don't need to be sold if they already know that they need it or they're smart enough to know that they're not smart enough to handle it. Those are the two reasons that people buy without needing to be sold.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Let's just say something happens and you have to go to court, we'll call it a frivolous lawsuit cause nobody does anything wrong. So let's say you have to go to court, you call an attorney to hire the attorney, and the only thing that you're really doing at that point is price shopping like how much is it going to cost me? That's all you really know.

Jason Drohn:
And is he going to keep me out of jail?

Patch Baker:
Right. And then the second thing is you don't hire the attorney and then tell him how to litigate.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Or you don't hire him and then go to court and be like, "I think you should be telling the judge this." It just doesn't happen like that. So if you're doing high-ticket closing, one of the main things in my opinion that you have to do is you have to set the stage that you are the expert in that field, so this is not like a client-vendor relationship, this is more like a partnership, we're going to work on this together, but at the end of the day, you're going to listen to what I have to say, you're going to do what I tell you to do, and we're going to come out on top.

The same way the attorney would, the attorney will say, "Hey, send me these documents, send me this paperwork, give me this timeline." You'll do all of that kind of stuff even though you hired him to work on your case and then he told you what to go do-

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
... and you do it.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
So that's one of the biggest things that I do as part of right before the close, I'm closing the whole time really, but right before I'm like, "All right, I'm going to send you over this contract or this proposal, or whatever we're doing." I'm going to say, "Hey, so I just want to make sure that when you sign this document that we're going to become a partner in this together. I'm the expert, you're hiring me to be the expert, so let me help you get to that next spot. You're good with that?" "Yep. I'm good with that." "All right." I just send it over to your inbox.

And that's the final thing because the very next thing that I'm going to do is once I get their signed contract, or proposal, or the money changes hands, or the invoice goes out, or whatever the next step is, the very next thing I'm going to do is an onboarding call where I set the stage 100%, and then introduce my team, and I turn it over to my team and I don't really do anything else other than to just check in.

So I think that is another great thing that you can do. I hear lots of people talking about things like servant leadership.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
I'm not opposed to certain servant leadership, but it's more on the leadership part than the servant part.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Right? You are helping them, and I get the gist, but what happens is a lot of people that talk about servant leadership have too much on the servant side and they just become doormats for their clients, and that, it doesn't make anybody feel good. There's not enough money to make it happen to where you're cool with it, and eventually it's going to run spaces and you're going to burn out on that person.

Jason Drohn:
Right. For the most part you do mostly inbound leads, right? Like somebody comes in to purchase any of your high-ticket stuff, it's all inbound, it's not outbound. Right?

Patch Baker:
I do outbound also. Yeah.

Jason Drohn:
You do outbound too?

Patch Baker:
Yeah.

Jason Drohn:
Some of the stuff that we covered earlier in the week was building face to face sales systems, automated webinars and stuff that end up booking face to face sales calls into strategy sessions, and then the paid traffic handles all of the awareness building, and by the time somebody comes to a call, then they usually already at least lightly know what the offer is.

They might not know what the price is, they might not know that there's how it... They know it will help them, but maybe not directly know how it will relate and benefit them.

And then on the face to face sales call, the face to face sales call is more just to a glorified order taker. And the process can be sold for courses, and masterminds, and consulting, or coaching, or anything proposal-based or whatever.

Patch Baker:
The final call to me is more like playing cleanup.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
Just making sure that every last minute question is answered and given some more confidence because it's really the first time that that person is going to be able to have a back and forth discussion-

Jason Drohn:
Yes.

Patch Baker:
... because most webinars, I would say a majority of webinars are prerecorded, therefore there's no real way to have any interaction unless you were on the first one.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
And because of that... People know that, people are privy to that. So sometimes, and I've done this myself, I go through a lot of other people's funnels to see what's shaking and what's going on, and pull the nutrients. It's part of my keeping on the tip of the spear, I'm learning too. I've called people before, even though I knew I was going to close on something just to see what those people said and to make sure that customer service is at a level that I feel confident with if I'm going to buy this high-ticket thing.

If we're talking about high-ticket being, let's say it's a $5,000 course on how to buy rental property. What I want to know that whoever I'm going to didn't send all of their customer service to like some third world country-

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
... not saying that badly, but they may not understand my question and I want to know that ahead of time before I get myself into this $5,000 deal.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
So I think one of the best things that you can do as part of the call to close or the video to close, one of the best things that you can do is make sure that the people that are answering that have really, really good understanding of what their lane is that they can talk about before they have to escalate it to you for you to close it again.

Jason Drohn:
Yep.

Patch Baker:
So I'll say, "Hey, you can talk about these 17 things, but if you get into one of these five things, you have to schedule that person to talk with me so that I can close it." And those can be 15 minute calls.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Right. Yeah, totally.

Patch Baker:
Which is crazy because most of the time, the average length in my experience, the average length to close on a call to close with somebody other than me or the person that was on the webinar and they've had a 30 minute call.

Jason Drohn:
Nice. Yeah.

Patch Baker:
But if they get to talk directly to me, it's only a 15 minute call.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Right.

Patch Baker:
Which is crazy, but, or whoever was on the webinar to begin with because they already feel like they got a relationship with that person. And most of the time, the only things that they... This is how it starts out. They have one question that you could answer in like two minutes or less, but 13 minutes of that is going to be them telling you how unique their business is and how different it is than every other business on the planet-

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
... and you almost have to just let them talk it out because it makes them feel good. They can build confidence, that's another thing. They're building confidence in themselves to be able to ask you the question. You give them the answer and sign the paperwork and done.

Jason Drohn:
Yup. For everybody listening, Patch, how many businesses do you own an interest in?

Patch Baker:
29.

Jason Drohn:
Okay. So 29 businesses and he literally just said every process is the same.

Patch Baker:
Everyone is the same. They're all the same. I don't care how cool do you think you are, your business is exactly the same as somebody else. None of us are doing anything that's new, we're just taking nuances from several different businesses. You can make a lot of money in the gaps between two businesses.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
Fundamentally, they're all the same; you need money to operate, you need people to do work, you need to have something that you can sell. You have to be able to collect that money in a way that pays the bills on time.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Fundamentally, they're all the same. And that goes for illegal businesses too, right? If you were selling crack, it's the same thing; you have to have product, you have to make money. You have to have face to face sales people, it's all fundamentally the same. And we're laughing about it, but the reason why I say that is because there are so many people that build businesses, they feel that they're so ultimately different.

That what happens is they operate in this fantasy world that they have to do things outside of the norm. Things that would work for other companies won't work for mine-

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
... and that just doesn't make any sense because every single day they're trying to recreate the wheel instead of just bolting wheels on their SPV, their Special Purpose Vehicle and just move it down the track. And the track is nothing more than getting it to and from the market.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
That's it.

Jason Drohn:
Yup.

Patch Baker:
Now you can go to the market on a commercial on TV, or on Facebook, or on Google, or Google Shopping, or YouTube, or Snapchat, the list goes on, and on, and on, but you have to have some kind of way to communicate with your audience. And if you put out the right message to the right person at the right time, you will make face to face sales-

Jason Drohn:
Yep.

Patch Baker:
... differently than trying to force feed something that's not working through the market.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
So let's talk about that point too because it's a really good point-

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
... around high-ticket face to face sales versus small-ticket face to face sales and the strategies between the two.

Jason Drohn:
Yep.

Patch Baker:
So every single thing that you will ever sell has an ascension ladder. If it does not, you do not have a complete product. Everything that you've ever bought in your life from anybody that knows what they're doing in business and has a successful business, they all have an ascension ladder. They start off with a base model and they work up from there.
It doesn't matter if you're talking about a car, getting a house built, appliances, phones, software, it doesn't matter what you're talking about, they all have an ascension ladder. If you don't know what an ascension ladder is, it's nothing more than starting off with a base model or sometimes we call it a tripwire where a small amount of dollar, maybe it's a $1.99, 99 cents, 7.99, 14.99 whatever, and then it slowly starts building up the value and it creates this curve, and the curve is a hockey stick. It literally is.

It starts off really small and it goes up, up, up, up very quickly, but if you build them right, it's the next logical step for you to advance in that direction that you said you wanted to go. So let's just use an example. Let's say we're talking about software. Software, it might let you get a freemium model where they bring you in, you could start a count for free, but then you can slowly start spending money to get either more access to the software, different features in the software, more email addresses, more customer CRM people that you can maintain.

Or maybe it's that you do a free plus shipping book offer that leads to a course, that leads to a bigger course, that leads to our mastermind, that leads to $100,000 mastermind, right?

Jason Drohn:
Right. Yeah.

Patch Baker:
But it's just slowly stepping those up. Well, here's the difference. The difference is on the tripwire offers or on the small offers, usually we can do that below the AI line. We can do 100% autonomous, we can have a machine, or a computer program, or a system, or just buttons that lead you through to complete your transaction in a cart where you never talked to a human. That is typically the entry point into my CRM.

So if you went through, the machine walked you through all the steps, you put in your credit card, you then got moved over to a bucket that's now my CRM, from there I'm going to send you an email, I'm going to step you into maybe a free Facebook group, and from that Facebook group, I'm going to ask you to turn on your notifications. I'm going to ask you to go fill out this form. I'm going to give you some kind of other free thing, maybe a PDF download, or some kind of checklist, or something.

So I've gotten you to come all the way through and do a bunch of stuff, now you've given me so much data on you, what you downloaded on, what you clicked on, what is your interest level there? From there, I might bucket you out and tag you differently, so I say, "This person already told me that they were interested in building a website and starting a podcast."

So then I start sending you out my, "Hey, here's a $49 course on how to start a podcast. Here's my $149 course on intro into starting a website."

Jason Drohn:
Yep.

Patch Baker:
And then I might step you up again and I say, "Hey, we have a service where we'll come in and we'll do your entire website for you. We will set up four funnels for you. We will do this and that and the other. Oh, but you need videos. If you need videos, here's a $49 course on how to film videos at your home, and here's the links of the microphone that I used, and the lights that I used, and everything," that also go out to Amazon. They kick me back a couple of dollars. All that kind of stuff.

That is an ascension model, and if you have that and you keep speaking directly to the people, you will eventually get them to a point where they're ready to make a big sale. That big sale typically, you have to run it to a video close where I'm talking to them directly because I want to sell them into a $30,000 mastermind on how to build websites and turn money online.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Totally. Yeah. Aaron Parkinson who has been blowing up our comments here. Aaron and I are partners in a couple of things and he said that basically every 30 minutes of video that you're on with somebody gets you about 500 bucks. So-

Patch Baker:
Yeah. True.

Jason Drohn:
... typically, so a bunch of video is required or a bunch of face-to-face or whatever's required for high levels of cash. The ascension model, love it. So you use basically like a low-ticket for $4.99 whatever buyer, and that's the entry point into your world. And then you march them up through some low-ticket offers and some affiliate stuff, which is... So the affiliate side, not many people get it anymore.

I grew up on it and you grew up on it, but now it's like with... Everybody was selling $2,000 courses and giving me 50% commissions on stuff, but now they don't do it anymore. So you have like Amazon's affiliate program and Commission Junction and stuff, gives you a little bit of money. But the ascension model is fantastic for converting cold traffic and turning them into buyers who then know they can trust you, love you, and then they end up ascending into some sort of an upper end something rather than-

Patch Baker:
You know what else it does? I've coined the phrase, Zoomies. Zoomies are like the tire kickers of Zoom. They go to every webinar, they go to every Zoom call, but they're just kicking tires. They're not actually interested in buying anything. Attack of the Zoomies is they'll get in mid 2020. All right?

What the ascension model also does for me, it tells me that the only way that they got to a Zoom call with me was they've already bought, I'm talking to a past purchaser.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
Which means they're not just tires kickers, which means that I can spend a little more time on them and they've already paid for my time in most cases.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah. Totally.

Patch Baker:
The collective whole has paid for my time to be on that 50 minute call.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Right.

Patch Baker:
Which is different. Just booking a cold video call for an hour? That's another thing. Dude, people will book your time out like it's nothing-

Jason Drohn:
Oh yeah.

Patch Baker:
... and then not show up 10 minutes before.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
And it's not just that they... Thank you for the email that said you're not going to make it 10 minutes before, but now I can't book out that hour.

Jason Drohn:
You're right. You end up losing twice.

Patch Baker:
You lose twice, that's right. That's right. And people just don't care, so I broke it down and said, "Look, you don't get me for an hour." I may get on a 15 minute phone call and decide that you get another hour.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Right? Because you proved some kind of worth to me or some kind of value or that you're serious about what you're talking about and then we'll get on for an hour, but I don't book out hours anymore at all, ever. I think the first time that we talked, we got like 15 minutes and I said, "Let's book another call."

Jason Drohn:
Yeah, you did. Yeah, it was.

Patch Baker:
Yeah.

Jason Drohn:
You share your screen a lot on these face to face sales calls, right?

Patch Baker:
Oh, for sure.

Jason Drohn:
So what do you share on your screen for instance?

Patch Baker:
Yeah. We all understand how case studies work, right? You typically send out a PDF case study and you expect people to read it. They don't read that stuff, but if I share my screen and I go through the case study, and I directly apply that case study to their business, it is so powerful.

Jason Drohn:
Makes sense.

Patch Baker:
Because you can say, "Hey look, we did this for this company and how about we reflect on your businesses. We could do the same thing but we would augment this piece and this piece for that piece in that piece." And they're like, "Oh man, that makes total sense."

Jason Drohn:
Right, right.

Patch Baker:
It's a whole different way.

Jason Drohn:
Well, it's interesting because you talked about the ascension stuff and like right now, and what has been super popular is the free plus shipping book offers.

Patch Baker:
Right.

Jason Drohn:
But now with non essential shipping being like [inaudible 00:30:41], maybe you'll get your book, maybe you won't, everybody switched to digital, which is awesome because [inaudible 00:30:47] fulfillment. So we built quite a few of those low-ticket digital funnels and it's nice because you just pull up the screens and say, "This is what we did for them. Do you want something like this? Okay, cool. We're going to switch this out. You'll have a video here and so on and so forth," and then, "Do you want that? Okay."

Patch Baker:
Yeah. And when you directly relate it to somebody's business and show them that their business is not unique, it's just the application of making their company's message fit inside the mold of whatever else we know works. There's certain things that we just know from spinning hundreds of millions of dollars that certain things work for every business.

There is a model. If you look at... We were coming, just talking about this, my wife and I were just talking about this on TV shows. There's programmatic.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
It's always the same. And she happened to have some TV show on, and I don't really watch TV, I don't even know what show it was, but there's this guy and he's... Something that happened, you could tell, the police were there and something had happened and I was like, "That dude's guilty." And she was like, "What time is it?" And I said, "It's 10:02." She said, "Nope, it's not him."

I was like, "How do you know that?" She's like, "Because every show is the exact same, but about 10:45 you'll find out who the killer is and they'll spend the last 15 minutes prosecuting them." She's got it nailed, right? The same thing is true with just about every funnel you will run. There are some crazy ones. I worked with a guy for a long time who... He did a really cool docuseries and that was his launch thing. And he would give away the docuseries that was like 12 hours long. He would give it away for free for like three days, but you could only watch eight hours of it.

And then he would say, "Hey, look, if you want the rest or you want to support me, pay for the last four hours," and the last four hours was really expensive, but it was a model that worked and that was a new one that I hadn't seen before. I tried to do it on something else and it bombed. It's just the way that he sets everything up. It's unique, but it's still the same exact principle of, you have to get them to come in and give it a try. Then you have to build value the whole way, then you have to ask for a sale. It's still the same model.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah. I teach a lot on small successes and it's not like going from zero to a sale. It's clicking the ad, and then from the ad they got to go to a face to face sales page, they got to scroll down the face to face sales page, click the play button. Go down, hit the add to cart button, wait for the add to cart button to load the order form, then go find their credit card, read... So there's like 13 steps between-

Patch Baker:
They're micro transactions.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah. And everyone-

Patch Baker:
Sometimes the energy transaction that has to happen for them to go get that credit card is more than they're willing to do at that moment.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah, totally.

Patch Baker:
If the credit card is downstairs, most people will be like, "Ah, I'll get it tomorrow."

Jason Drohn:
I do. There'll be a few of them like, "Yeah, my wallet's downstairs, whatever. I'll go back to it later." And sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But that's one of the things about Amazon and Apple Pay. It's like I'll buy whatever on Amazon because it's like they already have my credit card. All I got to do is I just got to remember the last four digits. And then, God forbid, I got to reenter my security number.

Patch Baker:
Right. Right. Well, here's another one. Talk about how hot ticket face to face sales is depending on the method in which you're using to get them on the call with the person that is actually the face to face sales person, which is different because you have a scheduler and you have the closer. Well, the crazy thing about that is that the scheduler believes unless you tell them otherwise, that they are trying to help in the ultimate sale.

So they find themselves talking about things that are not their place that could mess it up for the closer. So we actually teach our schedulers, we teach them on how to close the next call, not-

Jason Drohn:
Got you. Right, right, right.

Patch Baker:
Because their goal is to get through every objection to get the person on the next call and make sure the person is there. So if you're giving credit to people for booked calls, you should only be giving credit to book calls to actually show.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
So we teach them, "Okay, these are the main objections you're going to get for booking a call. These are the ways that you get around those." And then we're going to also send out a reminder. If it's more than four days, we're going to send out a reminder with another piece of high value content that's bonus material the second day into that four day wait so that you keep them warm and top of mind so that when the closer gets on the phone four days later, they're excited to be on the phone with the closer, whoever that is.

So you don't want to hit them every day because now, from a customer journey perspective, it seems as though you are pitching too hard and you need the sale, instead of you're doing them a solid by giving them something that they actually need.

Jason Drohn:
Yep.

Patch Baker:
Have you ever had this happen to you? I don't know why people do this. This is the craziest thing I've ever seen. But there are automatic feeders out there that every time you email somebody, they automatically pull that email and put you into their face to face sales sequence.

Jason Drohn:
Oh, I hate that.

Patch Baker:
Right?

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
I was cool with you until you did that to me, so I just for fun, and mainly because I wanted to prove the point. What I started doing was I started taking those people, I would tag them in a special bucket and I would send them every offer that we have. All of them, all... You think about it, they're getting pounded by hundreds of emails because I put them in a special tag to basically everything.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
And they're like, "Dude, you're just blowing up my inbox." "Oh, you mean like this one?" And I reply on the one that they sent me originally and I'm like, "Oh, you mean like this one because I was calling you to buy your company and you started pitching me on your offer or whatever."

Don't do that to people. If people are in a conversation with you, keep them in the regular loop, and then once you sell them, then you can put them into those remarketing email chains and all that kind of stuff.

Jason Drohn:
Well, continuity is an important thing. As you said, if they sign up for a face to face sales call, you send them the helpful stuff, but you also don't want to in the middle of that, send them to some other affiliate offer or something that takes their focus away from you.

Patch Baker:
Or you start giving them discounts.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Right.

Patch Baker:
Here's a good one. Remember where we are in the journey here. We have gotten them to agree to get on a call with the closer, then before the closer can even get on, you've sent them a 25% discount or 50% off, or whatever.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
So I told this story recently, I'll tell it again because it was really funny. I had to drive one place all the time for work and I saw this really cool shop on the side of the road where they made these handmade hammocks and they hand did outdoor furniture like winter stuff and whatever that nylon string is or whatever. And they handmade them right there on the side. They'd be out there every day with their little looms and they were doing all this cool stuff.

So anyway, there was this really cool dining set, I had seen it like 50 times. One day I was on my motorcycle, one day I pulled over and I was like, "Dude, how much is that thing?" He told me it was like 1,900 bucks. I was like, "Sweet, I'm going to get my truck. I'm coming right back. I'm going to buy that thing." He was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. What if I took 30% off?"

"Okay. But I'm just going to my house to get my truck. I'll be right back, I'm on a motorcycle." He's like, "50% off, you take it today." I was like, "Dude, okay, 50% off, sweet." I got to think for 65% off. I walked in, gave them my card, they ran it. I said, "Okay, I'll be back. I'm going to get my truck." I went and got my truck and came back.

That dude wanted to sell so bad, I would have paid full price for it because I thought it was cool. I'd already seen it 50 times. I knew I wanted it, I was going to give him full price and he just wouldn't let me walk away long enough to get a vehicle that I could transport it. So it's like that thing too, you can't be in the mindset that you need a sale.

If you need a sale to make the payroll or keep the lights on or whatever, do yourself a favor, don't ruin your audience. Go get a part time job to pay the bills until you can get the clients that you absolutely want to have because those clients that you needed and you took for a lower price just to pay the bills is killing your audience.

And if you do that, eventually you're going to find yourself in a place where you can pay the bills, but the stress that those people are putting on you is just too much for you to bear. Most of the time you burn out and you just can't ever really get ahead.

Jason Drohn:
Right. And the high-ticket offer piece, which was where we started, it's entirely made up of the audience. It has to be-

Patch Baker:
It is.

Jason Drohn:
... the right audience and the right person who's going to be able to take the best advantage of what you do. And they might be a very small set of people.

Patch Baker:
Yeah.

Jason Drohn:
It's just finding that very small set of people.

Patch Baker:
Yeah. And not only that, when you get that small group of people, they will get you other people through referrals of that small group. But if you taint that audience, let's say you have like some really high rollers in that audience and then you start bringing in tire kickers and adding them to the audience, that core group of your real purchasers, of the people that really matter to grow in that business, they will start going away.

They will start breaking off and saying, "Well the group is not what it used to be." And you can really water down a good core group that will keep you a lot of dollars coming in the door. And you see a lot of masterminds that they bring... When it was just 50 or 80 people, it was great. Then they try to grow, now it's 100 or 120 people, but they're not the same caliber as the core group of 50 that you had.

And then all of a sudden the core group of 50 goes away, and what you're left with is this mediocre crowd that just isn't as good as it used to be.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah, yeah.

Patch Baker:
Here's another thing that you can accidentally put in offer to a core group that is below their caliber and destroy the group too.

Jason Drohn:
Yes.

Patch Baker:
You have to make sure that the up face to face sales, the bump face to face sales, the cross face to face sales, all that stuff is on par with the core group that you have inside of your audience. And if you just want to do another launch for a low-ticket item, what happens is as soon as all those people see it, they're like, "That's going in a different direction than what I am." So you have to really understand who is in that audience and you have to be willing to remove people that don't fit in the audience.

Give up that 1,000 bucks, or that 5,000 bucks, or that 20,000 bucks, or the $100,000. Give that one up because since you were willing to give that up, the group understands that you are really focused on the core group and they will go replace that $100,000 that you gave up with three or four or five, $600,000.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Right, right, right. Totally. Yeah. It's interesting because there's just a lot of people in the high-ticket space and that's all they do is six, seven, 10 $15,000 offers. They don't mess with the free plus shipping books, they don't mess with the low end stuff. It's an audio program for five grand, the 60 minutes worth the body because the information in that audio program is capable of making them 100, 200, $300,000.

Patch Baker:
What you're talking about is an ascension gap. This is a whole different way to do this.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
So think about like a ladder, it has regular rungs and that's your ascension ladder. They need to do something to bridge the gap to get to the next rung and the next rung. If you put the rungs too far away, they can't reach the next rung, and if you put them too short, they're going to be going up every single rung, but they're not going to be going anywhere fast.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Now, if you turn that ladder into a board, they can't climb it all, it's just like a steep hill, they can't go up. The ascension gap, sometimes we create it as marketers and what we do is that's where you've seen where you'll be on a webinar or let's say you're in a training module. You've already gone through the webinar, you're now in the training and they'll say something like, "We're not really going to go into this subject. If you want to learn more about that, we have this other course that you can go to, which is the next level, but today we're only going to talk about this and this and this."

That's creating this ascension gap because what you're trying to do is take them off of this ladder, walk them across this pier and take them up this ladder.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Like the Chutes and Ladders type thing, right?

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
So you can create those, but you typically, and this is Ninja, you typically want to take them to a different named something. It might be in professionals and then you're... Or you can move, you can go across the platform and go to this, which is professionals elite.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
Right? Or you can go from this group and you're going to join this group, and you create such an ascension gap that they have to make a major purchase to get from one group to the next group that's a higher level.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
And that is Ninja because the people, you can use a lot of those low end offers down here in this group, then you selectively pick the people that are engaged, making moves, have proven that they're smart or they say intelligent things. Then you can go grab those people as an individual and say, "Hey, you might be interested in this over here," and you can cherry pick those people out.

Jason Drohn:
Right.

Patch Baker:
But the low-ticket offers is a great model to get thousands and thousands of people in to then be more selective about who you move to that bigger ladder.

Jason Drohn:
Well, and you already provided the answer for this, which was based on what they do, what links they click, what survey responses they have.

Patch Baker:
Yeah.

Jason Drohn:
Most good CRMs you can score that person, so like if they buy these three products, we're 500 points or whatever, and then you can say, "All of these high point people, all get triggered into an autoresponder sequence for the other tier, the other ladder." So it's interesting.

Patch Baker:
If you're really Ninja, you can also do some other analysis beyond just the surveys they take or the purchases that they make. So you can do things like... I'm not saying that we do or don't do this, I'm just saying, you could get a VA to every single new person that comes in. Typically, you're trying to get them on Facebook somehow.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
Then you cross reference between their Facebook followers, their pages, their Instagram to see if this somebody is a somebody that you really want because for example, let's say for example I get somebody like Roland Frasier to click through on a video ad because he's doing the same thing that I'm doing to him, which is going through his stuff to see who does what. He's not going to buy my $47 offer, but he came through.

So then if I get a list of X amount of people that a VA would say, "Hey, you should probably talk to this person, this person, this person, this person." I reach out to those people and say, "Hey dude, I saw you came in through whatever, whatever." And then you start this conversation that's completely different and you can probably skip the lower group and take them straight to the higher group.

Jason Drohn:
Makes total sense.

Patch Baker:
Yeah. Some people, they're not interested in the low-ticket offers, they're interested in making money moves and you need to be able to weed those people out too and be able to talk to them directly.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Yeah. And there's tech that will help find those people. There's a lot of CRMs.

Patch Baker:
Yeah, there's a lot.

Jason Drohn:
So right stuff. Man, shit, I could talk to you all day, but it's coming up on 11:00 here, so we should probably wrap everything up. First of all, thank you so much for-

Patch Baker:
Yeah, man.

Jason Drohn:
... jumping on. It was awesome. Dude, information was incredible. Is there anything you want to leave everybody with?

Patch Baker:
No. Whether you have a low-ticket offer or you have a high-ticket offer, the thing that you just have to remember is have pride in making the content when you first start it.

Jason Drohn:
Yeah.

Patch Baker:
But once that is done, you have to set your pride aside, you have to run it out to the market. If the market responds positively, do more of that. If they don't respond positively, it's you not them. Just take the pride away and just understand that you haven't done what you needed to do to build the value to get them to take the next step.

So if you just inwardly reflect on that and say, "Hey, what can I do to speak more intelligently, or better, or more simply to this audience?" Your offer will work, and most of the time it's because you are using... We've seen this in every industry. Lots of offers are made with the assumption that anybody that's watching it already knows a certain amount of things.

You've been on some of my calls, I break things down to like the lowest common denominator and that is a six year old. Right? Or call it a 13 year old if you have a really, really difficult face to face sales model, but there's really nothing that you can't explain to a 13 year old, and you just gauge the people as they're going through that. Are they getting it? If they are, great, ramp up to a 17 year old, or 21, or 25.

You do the math in your head, however you want to do it, but just start off from the bare minimum, explain everything. And then as they walk through, you can pretty much figure out where you need to be and what's the natural equilibrium for your audience. And then you know how to talk to them every single time.

Jason Drohn:
Right. Dude, it's awesome. All right. Thank you so much. We'll catch up again soon.

Patch Baker:
Yeah, let's do it, bro. Thanks for having me.

Jason Drohn:
Bye.

Patch Baker:
Bye.